Curse

yesitsrob · May 30, 2006, 06:15 AM // 06:15

the thing with migraine and HA is, you can take migraine knowing fully well that the tombs monk builds are relatively bad and are murdered by covered migraines, and it allows normally bad mesmers to really do a number on a tombs monk. And with pugs, fool proof methods such as taking migraine is probably not such a bad idea :\.

Quote:

Shatter, migraine, shatter , migraine. Running Migraine without an enchant removal or two is not something i think decent mesmers do.

HA doesn't have decent mesmers, for the most of it... your common migraine mesmer is going to have something along the lines of migraine, conjure, 4 interrupts, res, cc/windborne... i don't recall the last migraine mesmer i've come up against that drained my veil first... about the most skilled thing i've seen in ha with migraine mesmers is communicating hex covering with a necro or something so there is a lot less time to remove the migraine before the cover is applied... and that's a rarity.

On migraine, I don't think it's a noob skill, though I think using it to _help_ you interrupt is pathetic

Ado · May 30, 2006, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Euhm, this thread is about infusing, not about mesmers

~Vanilla~ · May 30, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

good teams don't need migraine, but most teams are bad. the problem is: a bad migraine mesmer that can keep migraine on you, will shut you down 100%.

to handle migraine without pre-veil, you will need 4 hex removes on somebody else but the 2 healers. this is awful lot. so some people carry convert on the prot. so the prot can remove migraine+conjure from one monk and that monk can remove migraine+conjure from the other monk... but this is fragile - _very_ fragile.

if you pre-veil, even the best migraine mesmer can't keep migraine on you and is forced to interrupt you without migraine.

that leads to 3 points:
1) you just shut down their elite
2) they can't shut you down effectivly (they got only limited interrupts and you will get a fastcast sometime so they will miss some interrupts)
3) you can use your convert for keeping your warrior spiteful free

just by pre-veiling you can eliminate 90% of migraine mesmers, because they suck and can't interrupt 1sec spells (sounds strange, but is true)

I dont think Migraine Mesmer are only used in bad or average teams. Your goal is to shut down the enemy monk effectively and add some holding power to your team. While you cant effectively aid your team by holding with a Powerblock Mesmer, you can put Migraine+Conjure on 1 enemy character and interrupt the other one. And like you said, you'll need Migrain since you only have a limited number of interrupts.

I dont think you need enchantment removal on a migrain mesmer to deal with veil either. Veil is a one second cast which never get's some love of fastcasting so you can interrupt it easyly and reliably if the monk wants to veil hisself again.

Helll is for Heroes · May 30, 2006, 05:52 PM // 17:52

if you are against spikers that:

know what theyre doing
know how to spike
all are in the same area so the spike can be perfect

then not even an infuser can save you. Ive faced spikes which were literally impossible to infuse, since they were too fast. That and prespiking, it bloody scares me everytime someone takes some damage since my infuse finger is twitching waiting in suspense the the spike.

Rspike is the best for prespiking, watch out for plently of prespikes there since they can prespike without little effect to the energy/skill cooldown of rangers but rspikes are the easiest to infuse if you know what you are doing.

Divineshadows · May 30, 2006, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asprah

Divineshadow,i noticed you dont have single remove hex in your build. Did you ever encounter hex team?-G

Two hex removals each on the other two channeling monks is more than enough (convert hexes, holy veil, two inspired hex). When it comes to hexes though, prevention is greater than cure. That is to say, interrupting a key hex spell is much better than trying to remove it before the cover lands, and my teams always have a lot of interrupts. I play back from the rest of my team to cast party spells. Which is exactly why I like power drain so much -- superior energy management and the ability to interrupt the mesmer who breaks from the pack and comes charging at me to cast migraine, energy surge, diversion, whatever. And, as an added bonus, I get to tell my warriors that a mesmer is separated from their team so that they can make haste to punish the mesmer for getting out of position.

Schorny · May 31, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Vanilla~

Veil is a one second cast which never get's some love of fastcasting so you can interrupt it easyly and reliably if the monk wants to veil hisself again.

that's why you fake it.

a migraine mesmer has limited interrupts, so you fire some heals, catch some interrupts and sometime in between fake a holy veil cast. after 2-3 fakes, you cast it. It is pure luck if the mesmer interrupts your veil...

if they take enchantment remove, they have even less interrupts or utility...

I ran a migraine mesmer for some time in HA and it was very surprising.

A bad monk was shut downed by me with really no afford. I kept migraine on him 24/7 and missed not a single cast. really devastating.

though when the monks where good, they faked their veil and it was nearly impossible to interrupt it. So i let them veil themselves so they played with -1 reg, which was fine for me. occassionally i casted migraine on them to force them to keep veil up and interruptet the most important heals. but i really felt useless. sure, i was a big annoyance because every 2nd or 3rd cast got interrupted, but was it devastating? no, not really.

a powerblock mesmer is so much more of a threat.

of course - you can always use migraine the way it was intended: cast it on someone and interrupt someone else. but this doesn't make much sense in HA where there are enough hex removes to handle that...

ayanaftw · May 31, 2006, 04:12 AM // 04:12

if there's pressure from the rest of ur team the monks wouldnt have time to fake veils.
plus u never know if the mesmer thats interrupting u is good or crap.

dare49devil · May 31, 2006, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Shatter, migraine, shatter , migraine. Running Migraine without an enchant removal or two is not something i think decent mesmers do.

A better tactic(if possible) than relying on the mesmer's reactions(or lack of) would be to draw the mesmer back beyond his interrupt range. If the mesmer follows, your damage dealers should be able to punish it.

Unfortuntately so. Migraine is kind of like the Mesmer's Eviscerate - takes little skill to be used effectively.

Assuming two migraine mesmers, i suppose so. But as said, veil is countered with enchant removal. You could cover veil with channeling - and that's what I would do in the situation, but it's unlikely most monks consider that. This is another reason why i prefer hex breaker - typical HA mesmers won't understand how to counter it.

/agree 100%. There are far better ways to shutdown and/or punish enemy casters.

Um. Not many mesmers bring the shatter to take of pre-vail. Well, I have not ran into ANY yet. Ttyl, bell is gonna ring.

deadmonkey4u · May 31, 2006, 07:53 PM // 19:53

My Standard Cookie Cutter Infuse Bar

[orison] [kiss] [infuse] [seed] [hp] [inspired hex] [channeling] [sb]

Most of the time you get to play non-spike teams which is why i run:
11 + 4 Healing
10 + 1 Divine
10 Inspiration
If i had to roll a character.

Since I have a fully capped and equipped pve monk, I can swap out runes and items for the xtra hp vs a spike team :O

As for those nasty spikes that are too quick, its up to your prot monk to watch who the guys face and prot spirit him (assuming your team is positioned well enough and that your prot monk is leet).

Byron · May 31, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

So I've found the problem, as other people have posted: there aren't many good mesmers in HA. Come across a mesmer without an enchant removal in GvG, and its all laughs. So, HA monks can continue to use veil as long as it is working.

Just be warned if you ever see me in a mesmer slot...

deadmonkey4u · May 31, 2006, 11:25 PM // 23:25

The thing with mesmers in HA is that I just run back and it forces their mesmer to choose to either overextend and die to try and interrupt me or don't and I can heal or throw sb on myself since I don't run veil in my infuse bar.

So far I haven't had to much problems with mesmer except against Leelof

Zhongchao · May 31, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

My infuse/sb setup is something like

11/12 heal, 12/13 divine, rest inspiration. all minor runes with sup vigor.

1. infuse
2. SB
3. orison
4. heal whisper, etheral heal, heal party or heal seed
5. holy veil
6. inspired hex
7. drain enchantment
8. blessed aura

I run four weapon sets:
(1) hale 20/20 heal staff of fort
(2) +5 energy sword of enchanting and 20/20 inspiration offhand
(3) +5 energy sword of enchanting and +15/-1 inspiration offhand
(4) negative energy set

a. Against spike teams, switch to weapon set 1 and prepare to sb and infuse.
b. Against balanced/pressure/smite, run weapon sets 2-4 and wear a 1+3 healing cap. [dont forget to pre-veil ^^ ]
c. When hero is capping or defending hero, wear a 1+3 divine favor cap. Then use blessed aura and weapon set 2/3 for a really long SB.

also dont forget to remove your superior cap once you have 30 or more DP.

dare49devil · Jun 01, 2006, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhongchao

My infuse/sb setup is something like

11/12 heal, 12/13 divine, rest inspiration. all minor runes with sup vigor.

1. infuse
2. SB
3. orison
4. heal whisper, etheral heal, heal party or heal seed
5. holy veil
6. inspired hex
7. drain enchantment
8. blessed aura

I run four weapon sets:
(1) hale 20/20 heal staff of fort
(2) +5 energy sword of enchanting and 20/20 inspiration offhand
(3) +5 energy sword of enchanting and +15/-1 inspiration offhand
(4) negative energy set

a. Against spike teams, switch to weapon set 1 and prepare to sb and infuse.
b. Against balanced/pressure/smite, run weapon sets 2-4 and wear a 1+3 healing cap. [dont forget to pre-veil ^^ ]
c. When hero is capping or defending hero, wear a 1+3 divine favor cap. Then use blessed aura and weapon set 2/3 for a really long SB.

also dont forget to remove your superior cap once you have 30 or more DP.

You must have an extremely good WoH monk.

rong626 · Jul 16, 2006, 06:13 AM // 06:13

what weapon is best for infuser

Byron · Jul 16, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by rong626

what weapon is best for infuser

This lineup has never done me wrong as a PvP character infuser:

Set1: +5 energy sword of enchanting, +30 health Divine favor focus (20% chance reduced recharge of divine favor spells)
->For standard use.

Set2: -5 energy sword of fortitude, +30 health PvP shield
->For swapping against e-denial, and against spike teams

Set3: +5 energy sword of enchanting, +30 health PvP shield
->For swappping against physically heavy teams

Want the enchanting mod for extended SB and healing seed life; reduced recharge focus for SB as well.

art_ · Jul 16, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Just be warned if you ever see me in a mesmer slot...

Since i read this I have been too scared to play any caster in HA

Sister Brianne · Jul 28, 2006, 06:00 PM // 18:00

I'm very sorry if this was said b4....but i find this echnique very helpful for catching spikes (all spike team, no/almost no pressure)

As infuser target one of teh spikers...when you see teh spike spell being cast (ss/obs flame/ light orb....) stare intently at party window and pray to god taht one person spikes teh slighest bit early or just be really fast.

good luck, this technique owns blood spike

Lord Dark Genie · Jul 28, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Bloodspike can be infused easily anyway, you can be asleep and still do it. The problem will usually be energy, not reaction time.

Sister Brianne · Jul 28, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Thanks....so i suppose a way to make it even easier is useless...

Katina · Jul 28, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

/agree 100%. There are far better ways to shutdown and/or punish enemy casters.

The truest statement of this useless thread. Yet, still with all the NR/Tranq, I still to this day see and get asked to play migraine mesmer.

And the migraine and interupts does relate to this thread, going from interupt mesmer to infuser usually results in great infusing, since you're basically "interupting" a spike, and you're reaction time should be decent, if you were any decent at interupting.